Benutzer:Thai/Überlegungen (PSI)

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How to make Socrates' intelligence artificial?

Vieles an unserem Projekt ist mir noch unklar. Da stellt sich zum einen die Frage: Für wen machen wir das eigentlich? Für philosophisch interessierte Laien (bzw. IF-Anhänger)? Oder als Einführung für Philosophie-Studierende in die Politeia? Oder wenden wir uns an ein Publikum, das bereits mit dem Werk vertraut ist?

Ein sozusagen pädagogischer Zugang - den Inhalt des Textes spielerisch zu vermitteln - wäre vermutlich einfacher zu realisieren, ich fände aber reizvoll, etwas mehr von der "Hardcore"-Philosophie mit ins Spiel zu bringen, die zu betreiben wir uns in diesem Semester ja auch bemüht haben.

Wenn es aber um einen "bloßen" Platon-Kommentar ginge, was rechtfertigte seine Umsetzung als IF? Worin bestünde der Mehrwert eines solchen Versuchs (abgesehen vom idealerweise erzielten Unterhaltungswert), was wären seine spezifischen Stärken? Ist es möglich, größere Anschaulichkeit zu erreichen, mit den Mitteln der IF einen spezifischen Erkenntniswert zu generieren? Meiner Meinung nach liegt eines der großen Potentiale des Mediums in der Multiplizität: Die Interakteurin (?) kann ihren eigenen Weg finden, von denen es unzählige gibt. Man kann also viele verschiedene Geschichten in eine einzige inform-Datei packen, die Interakteurin dort abholen, wo sie steht, Dinge aussparen, die sie nicht interessieren, oder die sie bereits verstanden hat.

Meine ersten Überlegungen zur Umsetzung gingen auch in die SocraBot-Richtung. Eine Vielzahl von "Do you agree (with Socrates)?"-Verzweigungen führt vom geraden Weg ab, nicht alle wird man aber argumentativ wieder dahin zurückführen können. Und die bereits aufgeworfene Frage lautet dann: wie damit umgehen? Kann es überhaupt das Ziel sein, die Interakteurin zu einer sokratischen Definition von Gerechtigkeit (bzw. zum platonischen Staatsmodell) hinzuführen? Können wir selbst an allen Stellen sagen: "We agree (with Socrates)!"? Wenn wir uns aber nicht auf die Darstellung der platonischen Argumentation beschränken, sondern uns ausgehend von seinem Text auf eine allgemeine Diskussion der Frage nach der Gerechtigkeit einlassen wollten, bliebe uns kaum erspart, auch die Argumente anderer Autoren miteinzubeziehen - das wäre aber kaum noch zu bewältigen.

Als Gedankenexperiment finde ich das allerdings recht interessant (IF ist dafür aber zu wenig interaktiv): angenommen, wir bauen tatsächlich an jeder Stelle, an der Sokrates eine Frage stellt, eine Verzweigung ein, dann wird es sich in den meisten Fällen um eine Mehrfach-Verzweigung handeln, denn meist wird es unterschiedliche Gründe geben, warum verschiedene Interakteurinnen in einer Frage der gleichen oder einer anderen Meinung sind wie Sokrates. Da diese Gründe nicht alle vorhersehbar sind, müsste Interakteurinnen die Möglichkeit gegeben sein, neue Verzweigungen zu erzeugen, und allen anderen, darauf zu reagieren. Manchen mag es als Irrweg erscheinen, und sie finden Gegenargumente, die wieder zur vorherigen Abzweigung zurückführen, andere bauen die Verzweigung noch weiter aus, stellen Verbindungen zu anderen Stellen des Netzes her, machen Voraussetzungen ausfindig, etc.

Jedenfalls: wenn ich auch dafür plädiere, wirklich philosophisch mit dem Medium zu arbeiten, wäre es als Tribut an dessen Geschichte und spaßeshalber doch recht nett, wenn es zumindest ein paar Adventure-artige Sequenzen in unserer philosophischen IF gäbe: Als Inform-Fingerübung habe ich dazu als kleines Beispiel die Gyges-Geschichte (ansatzweise) modelliert, wie sie als Einstieg für unser Projekt dienen könnte.

Ich finde auch interessant, dass es möglich ist, der Interakteurin eine Aktion sozusagen aufzuzwingen, wenn man ihr deutlich macht, dass die Geschichte sonst nicht weitergeht. Beim Gyges-Beispiel: Würde man davor zurückschrecken, den König zu töten, oder ist es in der Spielumgebung ganz natürlich, die blutige Tat ohne Skrupel auszuführen? Jedenfalls ist es irgendwie eine interessante Ausgangskonstellation, mit der Interakteurin eine Diskussion über Gerechtigkeit anzufangen, nachdem sie gerade virtuell einen Mord begangen hat...

Nachtrag:

Ich habe auch über Möglichkeiten der graphischen Darstellung der Argumentationsstrukturen nachgedacht, ein bisschen mit Mindmapping-Programmen herumgespielt, bin aber noch nicht wirklich zu befriedigenden Ergebnissen gekommen. Vielleicht hat auch von euch jemand Lust, sich damit zu beschäftigen? Wenn wir dabei mit Buch 1 beginnen wollen, mit dem wir uns bis jetzt am intensivsten auseinandergesetzt haben, ist vielleicht die Analyse von Rachel Barney, Socrates' Refutation of Thrasymachus, für die Darstellung der Struktur des Thrasymachus-Dialogs (und seiner möglichen Verzweigungspunkte) ein hilfreicher Ausgangspunkt.

Gyges

<source lang=inform line enclose=div> "gyges" by thaí

[General note: This code is not very sophisticated. It makes use of some techniques in ways which are not always very elegant. I didn't have the time to do it more properly and it's not more than a first approach.]

Include Basic Screen Effects by Emily Short.

The story genre is "Philosophical IF". The story headline is "An etude in philosophical IF". The story description is "Ever heard about the story of Gyges?" The story creation year is 2009.

Use no scoring.

Use full-length room descriptions. [This is not safe as the user has the possibility to turn it off - but the room description for the Pasture (when coming back from the chasm) contains vital information for the player]

Rule for constructing the status line: center "[location]" at row 1; rule succeeds.

Chapter - source

[I just kept this for easy copy & paste...

source: Plato. Plato in Twelve Volumes, Vols. 5 & 6 translated by Paul Shorey. Cambridge, MA, Harvard University Press; London, William Heinemann Ltd. 1969.

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text.jsp?doc=Perseus:text:1999.01.0168

[359c] If we grant to each, the just and the unjust, licence and power to do whatever he pleases, and then accompany them in imagination and see whither his desire will conduct each. We should then catch the just man in the very act of resorting to the same conduct as the unjust man because of the self-advantage which every creature by its nature pursues as a good, while by the convention of law it is forcibly diverted to paying honor to 'equality.' The licence that I mean would be most nearly such as would result from supposing them to have the power [359d] which men say once came to the ancestor of Gyges the Lydian. They relate that he was a shepherd in the service of the ruler at that time of Lydia, and that after a great deluge of rain and an earthquake the ground opened and a chasm appeared in the place where he was pasturing; and they say that he saw and wondered and went down into the chasm; and the story goes that he beheld other marvels there and a hollow bronze horse with little doors, and that he peeped in and saw a corpse within, as it seemed, of more than mortal stature, [359e] and that there was nothing else but a gold ring on its hand, which he took off and went forth. And when the shepherds held their customary assembly to make their monthly report to the king about the flocks, he also attended wearing the ring. So as he sat there it chanced that he turned the collet of the ring towards himself, towards the inner part of his hand, and when this took place they say that he became invisible [360a] to those who sat by him and they spoke of him as absent and that he was amazed, and again fumbling with the ring turned the collet outwards and so became visible. On noting this he experimented with the ring to see if it possessed this virtue, and he found the result to be that when he turned the collet inwards he became invisible, and when outwards visible; and becoming aware of this, he immediately managed things so that he became one of the messengers [360b] who went up to the king, and on coming there he seduced the king's wife and with her aid set upon the king and slew him and possessed his kingdom. If now there should be two such rings, and the just man should put on one and the unjust the other, no one could be found, it would seem, of such adamantine temper as to persevere in justice and endure to refrain his hands from the possessions of others and not touch them, though he might with impunity take what he wished even from the marketplace, [360c] and enter into houses and lie with whom he pleased, and slay and loose from bonds whomsoever he would, and in all other things conduct himself among mankind as the equal of a god. And in so acting he would do no differently from the other man, but both would pursue the same course. And yet this is a great proof, one might argue, that no one is just of his own will but only from constraint, in the belief that justice is not his personal good, inasmuch as every man, when he supposes himself to have the power to do wrong, does wrong. ]

Chapter - rules

When play begins: say "You're out at the pasture with the animals you're herding. It's raining heavily, a veritable deluge and the earth begans to quake. Suddenly the ground opens and a chasm appears. You're frightened but you force yourself to approach it and look into it."; wait for any key; clear the screen.

Instead of going west from the Pasture when chasm is not visited: say "You have more interesting things to explore: the chasm for example!".

Instead of going nowhere from the Pasture when chasm is not visited: say "You have more interesting things to explore: the chasm for example!".

Instead of going west from the Pasture when chasm is visited and player does not have the ring: say "Haven't you forgotten something down there in the chasm?".

Instead of going nowhere from the Pasture when chasm is visited and player does not have the ring: say "Haven't you forgotten something down there in the chasm?".

Every turn: if location is fireplace: say "It takes you some instants to find out that in fact you ARE and soon you relate this new state of yours to the ring you're wearing. You experiment with the ring to see if it really possesses this virtue, and you find the result to be that when you turn the collet inwards you became invisible, and when outwards visible; and becoming aware of this, you immediately manage things so that you become one of the messengers who go up to the king."; wait for any key; clear screen; say "Once arrived at the royal court, excessively using your new facility you succeed very fast in seducing the king's wife, which is of course only the first step. The king's wife is willing to help you accomplish the next one..."; wait for any key; clear screen; now the player is knowing; move player to king's bedroom; now the player is seeable. [This is of course too easy - in a release version the player would have to find out himself, how the ring works.]

Instead of taking the ring when the ring is worn by the corpse: move ring to player; say "You carefully take off the ring of the corpse's finger.".

Instead of turning the ring when the player is wearing the ring: if player is seeable: now the player is unseeable; say "You're turning the collet of the ring towards yourself, towards the inner part of your hand[if player is knowing] and become [bold type]invisible[roman type][end if].[paragraph break]"; if location is the office: say "[quotation mark]Gyges,[quotation mark] the king remarks while picking up a card which had fallen down, [quotation mark]I really like you, you know. You're a man with qualities. Have you ever thought of...[quotation mark][paragraph break][quotation mark]Oh, he's already gone,[quotation mark] he sighs, returning to his game.[paragraph break]"; otherwise: if location is the office: say "You shouldn't do that since the king would be able to see you and your plan would be quite a bit harder to accomplish."; otherwise: now the player is seeable; say "You're turning the collet of the ring away from yourself, towards the outer part of your hand[if player is knowing] and become [bold type]visible[roman type][end if].[paragraph break]".

Instead of turning the ring when the player is carrying the ring: say "Did you really expect that something interesting would happen, if you're playing around with the ring in your trouser pocket?".

Instead of examining the player when player is knowing: say "You're [bold type][if unseeable]in[end if]visible[roman type] in the moment.".

Before taking off the ring: now the player is seeable.

Instead of taking the dagger: now the player carries the dagger; say "You take the dagger.".

After opening the hidden door: say "You carefully open the hidden door.".

Instead of attacking the king: say "What would you attack him with?".

Visibility is a kind of value. The visibilities are seeable and unseeable. A person has a visibility. A person is usually seeable.

Ignorance is a kind of value. The ignorances are ignorant and knowing. A person has a ignorance. A person is usually ignorant.

Chapter - actions

Understand "go to [any room]" as going by name.

Going by name is an action applying to one thing.

Check going by name: if the noun is the location, say "You're already in [the location]." instead; if the noun is not an adjacent room, say "I can not see [the noun] around here." instead.

Carry out going by name: move player to the noun.

Understand "kill [someone] with [something]" as killing it with. Killing it with is an action applying to two things.

Understand "murder [someone] with [something]" or "assassinate [someone] with [something]" or "slay [someone] with [something]" as killing it with.

Carry out killing: if the noun is the king: if the second noun is the dagger: if the player is seeable: say "Maybe time has come for the king to be replaced, but still he is an athletic men who knows to handle his sword. The risk of getting hurt is much too big."; otherwise: say "Unnoticed you weasel silently behind the king and slit his throat with one fast cut. He vainly tries to scream and slump down on his desk..."; wait for any key; clear screen; say "Well done! From now it's not far to becoming yourself the king instead of the king..."; wait for any key; clear screen; say "Now let's consider the following argument coming from the same source as the story of Gyges which is Plato's [italic type]Republic[roman type]. [paragraph break][quotation mark]If now there should be two such rings, and the just man should put on one and the unjust the other, no one could be found, it would seem, of such adamantine temper as to persevere in justice and endure to refrain his hands from the possessions of others and not touch them, though he might with impunity take what he wished even from the marketplace, and enter into houses and lie with whom he pleased, and slay and loose from bonds whomsoever he would, and in all other things conduct himself among mankind as the equal of a god. And in so acting he would do no differently from the other man, but both would pursue the same course. And yet this is a great proof, one might argue, that no one is just of his own will but only from constraint, in the belief that justice is not his personal good, inasmuch as every man, when he supposes himself to have the power to do wrong, does wrong.[quotation mark][paragraph break] - [italic type]Republic, [roman type]360b-c[paragraph break][bold type]Now, what do you think about justice?[roman type][paragraph break]... and this would be the place to implement some discussion with all the nice arguments that Plato's text provides."; wait for any key; end the game saying "to be continued..."; otherwise: say "I don't think it's possible to use that as a killing instrument!"; otherwise: say "Why should one kill this nice person?".

Chapter - world

The Pasture is a room. "In front of you you can see the chasm. [if player has ring]In the west you can see the fireplace where the other shepherds wait for you to hold your customary assembly to make your monthly report to the king about the flocks. [otherwise]It's quite big. In the depth you perceive something gleaming. What could it be? Maybe you can go down?[end if]"

Gyges is a man in the Pasture. The player is Gyges.

Down of the Pasture is the Chasm. The description of the chasm is "Besides some other marvels you behold a hollow bronze horse with little doors that fascinates you."

The chasm contains a hollow bronze horse and some marvels. The marvels and the horse are fixed in place. The marvels and the horse are scenery. Understand "horse" as the hollow bronze horse. The description of the horse is "You peep in and see a corpse within."

The horse contains a corpse. The corpse is fixed in place. The description of the corpse is "The corpse seems to be of more than mortal stature, and there is nothing else but a gold ring on its hand."

The corpse wears a gold ring. The ring is wearable. The description of the ring is "The ring seems to be made of pure gold and must be quite valuable. It has a collet, into which a jewel of remarkable size is set."

West from the Pasture is the Fireplace. East from the fireplace is nowhere. The description of the Fireplace is "All the shepherds are sitting around the fire engaged in animated discussion. [if player is unseeable]When approaching the assembly you are astonished that nobody is greeting you, they are [otherwise]They welcome you and you sit down. The discussion bores you and you play around with your new ring. Suddenly you observe that those who sit by you are speaking of you as absent and [end if]treating you as if you were invisible."

The King's Bedroom is a room. "The king's wife is standing in front of you, offering you a nice ornamented dagger.[paragraph break][quotation mark]Take this,[quotation mark] she says [quotation mark]and do what you have to do![quotation mark][paragraph break]You can see a hidden door which leads to the king's office.". Understand "bedroom" as the king's bedroom.

The king's wife is a woman in the bedroom. Understand "wife/queen" as the king's wife. The wife is scenery. The description of the wife is "Your taste in women seems to be excellent. But it's better not to think about her character..."

The dagger is carried by the king's wife. "It's a nice dagger that seems to have a very sharp blade."

West from the king's bedroom is the hidden door. The hidden door is a door and scenery. It is east from the King's Office. The description of office is "The king is sitting behind his desk, preoccupied with playing some card game and not being very attentive to what is happening arround him.[if unvisited] [welcome message][end if]". Understand "office" as the king's office.

To say welcome message: say "[if player is seeable][paragraph break][quotation mark]What are you doing here, Gyges?,[quotation mark] he asks, as he notices you entering. [quotation mark]Are there any further news from my shepherds you have to report?[quotation mark][otherwise]As you're invisible and carefully avoiding to make any noise he doesn't notice you entering.[end if]".

The king is a man in the office and scenery. The description of the king is "The king is impressive. Much more than you. But he lacks a certain thing that you possess and which will help you to shorten his life considerably."

Chapter - testing

test fireplace with "d /take ring / u / wear ring / turn ring / w". test bedroom with "d / take ring / u / l / w / take dagger / wear ring / open door". test office with "d / take ring / u / l / w / take dagger / w / wear ring / turn ring / open door/ go through door". test walkthrough with "d / take ring / u / l / w / take dagger / w / wear ring / turn ring / open door/ go through door / kill king with dagger". </source>